CCS rollout to underserved areas

DonTom

DonTom

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Looks like Glendale, AZ will be next.

Is Tesla planning on adding Magic Dock to every one of their superchargers? Or is it just for "select locations" (which often means everywhere except for where it is needed the most)?

-Don- Reno, NV
 
DonTom said:
Looks like Glendale, AZ will be next.

Is Tesla planning on adding Magic Dock to every one of their superchargers? Or is it just for "select locations" (which often means everywhere except for where it is needed the most)?

-Don- Reno, NV
Click to expand...

I feel pretty confident that these will be limited to V3 and V4 superchargers, though V3 represents a pretty substantial percentage of the supercharger portfolio at this point.
 
DonTom said:
Is Tesla planning on adding Magic Dock to every one of their superchargers? Or is it just for "select locations" (which often means everywhere except for where it is needed the most)?
Click to expand...

They need to replace the PLC module in some V3 superchargers to enable CCS charging for non-Tesla vehicles (CCS uses TCP/IP whereas Tesla uses CANbus). My unifying theory is that they're adding Magic Docks to low-utilization Superchargers when they switch out the PLC module. Under this theory, they won't install them in high-use Superchargers because they want to control access to prevent Tesla owner frustration.

I bet it takes them less than 30 minutes to install a Magic Dock and it would be much cheaper from a labor perspective to do the dock and the PLC module at the same time.
 
DonTom said:
How do we tell the V3 and V4 from the others? All Tesla superchargers look the same to me.

-Don- Reno, NV
Click to expand...

V2 chargers are labeled in pairs (1A, 1B; 2A, 2B; etc). The central cabinets also have a hood on the front as below
172892.jpg


V3 chargers are labeled in quads (1A, 1B, 1C, 1D; 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D; etc.). the central cabinets are square.

IMG_4260.jpg


We don't currently have any V4 chargers in the USA. V4 chargers will be taller, have black trim and will lack the 'donut hole' in the charging pedestal.

Tesla-Supercharger-V4-official.jpg
 
Dirtman16 said:
I feel pretty confident that these will be limited to V3 and V4 superchargers, though V3 represents a pretty substantial percentage of the supercharger portfolio at this point.
Click to expand...

V2 superchargers apparently can't be upgraded to enable CCS TCP/IP communication, so I think we're only going to get Magic Docks at V3 and V4 chargers.
 
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DonTom said:
How do we tell the V3 and V4 from the others? All Tesla superchargers look the same to me.

-Don- Reno, NV
Click to expand...
To add to Vandy's very good response above, the V3 chargers have thinner cables (because they are liquid cooled) and lack the silver ring between the cable and the handle. On V3 chargers, they are just black. V3 chargers will also be identified as 250kW chargers by Tesla rather than 150 kW for V2 superchargers.
 
What version are these?

These?

These?

These are three locations where I really want to see Magic Dock. But I assume all three are too old for it.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
@Vandy1981 's response gave you the tools you needed to figure it out yourself, but I did check your three sites, and only the third (Diamond Mountain Casino) is a V3.

But just to set expectations, keep in mind that there are almost 2000 Supercharger sites in the US, and technically speaking, the magic dock rollout is still just an early test at this point (although it seems like everything Tesla does is just a test). And I certainly doubt that they are trying to locate magic docks in places where they are needed, but rather where it makes sense to them to roll out (they probably do look at how busy sites are and specifically avoid them though). And even though they have ramped up the rollout lately, just pure statistics would imply that the chances they are going to hit a particular site of interest to you are pretty low.
 
DonTom said:
Thanks all!


Is this adapter (halfway down the page in the link) likely to work with V1 and V2?

tesla-to-ccs-1024x389.webp

-Don- Auburn, CA
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Unfortunately, while the adapter in theory would fit, it would not allow you to authorize a charge session on a supercharger. That is up to Tesla. So, I would find magic dock locations or hope that your vehicle manufacturer reaches a deal with Tesla to use the supercharger network as a whole. In the later case, Tesla would offer a native adapter.

I should add that it is unlikely they will ever open V1 and V2 superchargers due to the communications issue that Vandy noted above.
 
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Dirtman16 said:
Unfortunately, while the adapter in theory would fit, it would not allow you to authorize a charge session on a supercharger. That is up to Tesla. So, I would find magic dock locations or hope that your vehicle manufacturer reaches a deal with Tesla to use the supercharger network as a whole. In the later case, Tesla would offer a native adapter.

I should add that it is unlikely they will ever open V1 and V2 superchargers due to the communications issue that Vandy noted above.
Click to expand...
So Magic Dock really will not solve much of the problem. There will be countless Tesla Superchargers that cannot be used as CCS and often in locations where such would be needed the most. I assume it is unlikely for the older V1s and V2's to be replaced by V3s any time soon.

-Don- Auburn, CA
 
DonTom said:
So Magic Dock really will not solve much of the problem. There will be countless Tesla Superchargers that cannot be used as CCS and often in locations where such would be needed the most. I assume it is unlikely for the older V1s and V2's to be replaced by V3s any time soon.

-Don- Auburn, CA
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According to supercharge.info, there are 1,234 V3 superchargers open in the United States. There are 578 V1 and V2 superchargers. So, there are over twice as many V3 installations as others, and all new ones will be V3 or V4. It may not solve your specific problem in the near term, but it has the potential to greatly alleviate CCS charging stress in the US, provided they roll Magic Docks out very widely.
 
Dirtman16 said:
There are 578 V1 and V2 superchargers.
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And those are mostly located in the areas where I would like to see CCS the most!

IMO, that I could CCS charge more places three years ago than today is a bit ridiculous. Many new CCS chargers grouped together in the same areas, such as Sacramento, CA, but the most needed locations have a single old broken CCS charger, such as Incline Village, NV or Hawthorne, NV which worked fine three years ago, but not today.

I still have yet to see even one old CCS broken charger repaired or replaced--of any make.

What I do see improving is J-plugs. They are everywhere these days and much more reliable than CCS--if you have all day to charge up.

-Don- Auburn, CA
 
I understand your frustration, but I hope at the same time you realize that you are traveling to some fairly remote areas. The strategy that most CPOs are following now is to blanket more commonly traveled corridors.

For sure reliable charging becomes a necessity for traveling to those areas, but the number of travelers served by those chargers would be relatively low. We'll get there eventually. Side note: it was over a year after I got my first Nissan LEAF before there was ANY fast charger at all in my state (well, Tesla had one or two Superchargers, but those certainly didn't do me any good).
DonTom said:
I assume it is unlikely for the older V1s and V2's to be replaced by V3s any time soon.
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I think it depends. While I haven't seen a replacement policy being used much, I have seen V2 sites supplemented with V3s.

I'm also not sure I agree with your assertion that it's the V2 sites (I think we can safely just say V2 -- if there are any V1s left open, it's probably less than 10...there are some what I call V1.5's, which are basically V2s limited to 120kW, but they are not really V1s) that you most need CCS at. The V2 Supercharger era was characterized by again, trying to enable common travel corridors, not so much out of the way areas. We were in the V3 era by the time Tesla started to seriously start covering off-interstate routes. So, your 2 out of 3 example aside, looking at the whole country, rolling out CCS support at Superchargers may actually wind up serving the more remote areas first (given that Tesla is not going to want to roll out magic docks at busy sites).

This is all just speculation of course. I don't have any hard data or knowledge of Tesla's plans. But that's where I'd be placing my bets.
 
lpickup said:
but I hope at the same time you realize that you are traveling to some fairly remote areas.
Click to expand...
Yes, and EV cars are much less of an issue. I like to ride motorcycles into the mountains and such, and most electric motorcycles have less range than EV cars.

But sometime even areas which are NOT remote have an issue, such as I mentioned here.

-Don- Auburn, CA
 
Vandy1981 said:
They need to replace the PLC module in some V3 superchargers to enable CCS charging for non-Tesla vehicles (CCS uses TCP/IP whereas Tesla uses CANbus). My unifying theory is that they're adding Magic Docks to low-utilization Superchargers when they switch out the PLC module. Under this theory, they won't install them in high-use Superchargers because they want to control access to prevent Tesla owner frustration.

I bet it takes them less than 30 minutes to install a Magic Dock and it would be much cheaper from a labor perspective to do the dock and the PLC module at the same time.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect.

V3 Supercharger already supports CCS out of the box.

All Tesla had to do was add the Magic Dock.

V2 Supercharger would need a board swap.

Tesla would also have to design a new board just for the V2 Supercharger.

It's certainly doable, but a lot more work.
 
Based on the theory that Tesla is rolling to underserved areas, I'm gonna make some predictions for the east US where the range rings overlap poorly for high power CCS chargers. These are all existing or permitted V3 superchargers. Let's see how fast they get to these.

Sutton, WV and/or Lewisburg, WV
Jonesboro, AR
Nash, TX (Currently in permit status)
Evergreen, AL
Orangeburg, SC
Richmond, KY
Mansfield, PA
Prairie du Chien, WI
Millen, GA (non-interstate)
Farmville, VA (non-interstate)
 
Dirtman16 said:
Based on the theory that Tesla is rolling to underserved areas, I'm gonna make some predictions for the east US where the range rings overlap poorly for high power CCS chargers. These are all existing or permitted V3 superchargers. Let's see how fast they get to these.

Sutton, WV and/or Lewisburg, WV
Jonesboro, AR
Nash, TX (Currently in permit status)
Evergreen, AL
Orangeburg, SC
Richmond, KY
Mansfield, PA
Prairie du Chien, WI
Millen, GA (non-interstate)
Farmville, VA (non-interstate)
Click to expand...
I doubt it. Tesla is a business after all.

Tesla is likely rolling out Magic Dock to Superchargers that have low utilization.

Low utilization means that Tesla is losing money.
 
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