Rivian Adventure Network should be excluded

M

Mockingbird

Active member
Fastcharger Editor
Joined
Jan 30, 2022
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Rivian Adventure Network sites should be excluded since they are not available to use for most EVs.

Rivian forums have their own trackers anyway.
 
At some point I will offer a provider filter on the map, which will allow you to "hide" the Rivian network if you don't want to see it.

I don't agree that I shouldn't include Rivian here, as it's not as if there aren't (or won't be) plenty of Rivian owners as well that may want to come here to peruse the data/forums. Besides, who knows if they might not eventually open up their network to other brands in the future.

I would include Tesla here as well if not for the fact that this site is pretty much a parallel site to supercharge.info/TMC and I'm not out to compete with them (particularly since the code base I use essentially came from them).
 
lpickup said:
At some point I will offer a provider filter on the map, which will allow you to "hide" the Rivian network if you don't want to see it.

I don't agree that I shouldn't include Rivian here, as it's not as if there aren't (or won't be) plenty of Rivian owners as well that may want to come here to peruse the data/forums. Besides, who knows if they might not eventually open up their network to other brands in the future.

I would include Tesla here as well if not for the fact that this site is pretty much a parallel site to supercharge.info/TMC and I'm not out to compete with them (particularly since the code base I use essentially came from them).
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Rivian is a small startup, and I wouldn't be surprised if it goes bankrupt in a couple of years. Rivian owners are a small fraction of EV owners.

Now imagine if we have more and more random startup companies polluting this site with brand-exclusive chargers:

Golden Tiger charging network (exclusive to Golden Tiger EV owners only), Silver Elephant charging network (exclusive to Silver Elephant EV owners), etc.
 
BTW, I am glad that you do not add Supercharger locations on this site.

People come to this site specifically because they want to find information about public chargers, not chargers exclusive to Tesla vehicles.

If they wanted to find information about Tesla exclusive chargers, they would go to supercharge.info.
 
I think your hypothetical example is quite far-fetched and at the very least far-off.

But let's play out your Rivian bankruptcy scenario a bit. Let's say that in fact they do wind up going down that road. What do you think will happen to their Adventure Network fastchargers? Two possibilities: they are simply abandoned and go offline, or they are sold to a winning bidder (a likely outcome as part of any reorganization plan) that will incorporate them into their network. If the former, the sites can merely be deleted, but if the more likely latter is the result, they are already in the database and merely need to be remapped to a new provider (which already has and continues to happen today). A third possibility, that I think is even more likely in the event Rivian experiences financial difficulties is that they decide to open up their network to other makes anyway.

Other carmakers are also introducing charging networks (e.g. Ford). They may or may not be publicly accessible. Is there a particular sized manufacturer that would be acceptable to consider?

And is there a particular point in time where the Rivian bankruptcy scenario is no longer considered likely?

What about other networks that face potential bankruptcy? You and others have been outspoken critics of Francis Energy because they can't seem to get their act together. Should I not include that network because it's too risky and seems unlikely to survive? Or how about all these networks that have fewer (known) sites than Rivian:
1671639098415.png
What are their long term prospects? Should I just ignore them because they haven't yet proven themselves?

Actually I'm having a hard time understanding what your particular issue with having Rivian (or any other network's) chargers here is. Is it actually causing a real problem for you, or is it just annoying to you because you wouldn't be able to use those chargers? Would LEAF owners be upset that they can't use many of the chargers?
 
lpickup said:
I think your hypothetical example is quite far-fetched and at the very least far-off.

But let's play out your Rivian bankruptcy scenario a bit. Let's say that in fact they do wind up going down that road. What do you think will happen to their Adventure Network fastchargers? Two possibilities: they are simply abandoned and go offline, or they are sold to a winning bidder (a likely outcome as part of any reorganization plan) that will incorporate them into their network. If the former, the sites can merely be deleted, but if the more likely latter is the result, they are already in the database and merely need to be remapped to a new provider (which already has and continues to happen today). A third possibility, that I think is even more likely in the event Rivian experiences financial difficulties is that they decide to open up their network to other makes anyway.

Other carmakers are also introducing charging networks (e.g. Ford). They may or may not be publicly accessible. Is there a particular sized manufacturer that would be acceptable to consider?

And is there a particular point in time where the Rivian bankruptcy scenario is no longer considered likely?

What about other networks that face potential bankruptcy? You and others have been outspoken critics of Francis Energy because they can't seem to get their act together. Should I not include that network because it's too risky and seems unlikely to survive? Or how about all these networks that have fewer (known) sites than Rivian:
View attachment 52
What are their long term prospects? Should I just ignore them because they haven't yet proven themselves?

Actually I'm having a hard time understanding what your particular issue with having Rivian (or any other network's) chargers here is. Is it actually causing a real problem for you, or is it just annoying to you because you wouldn't be able to use those chargers? Would LEAF owners be upset that they can't use many of the chargers?
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My point is that people come to this site to look for information about public chargers.

People don't come here to look for information about Tesla Superchargers.

If they want to look for information about Tesla Superchargers, they will go elsewhere (i.e. supercharge.info)

It's the same case with the Rivian Adventure Network.
 
Mockingbird said:
My point is that people come to this site to look for information about public chargers.
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What about people with Rivians? Do they not count? I realize that you may not care about that network, but I don't think you speak for everyone who might visit this site.

Mockingbird said:
People don't come here to look for information about Tesla Superchargers.

If they want to look for information about Tesla Superchargers, they will go elsewhere (i.e. supercharge.info)

It's the same case with the Rivian Adventure Network.
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For kicks I went out to see what alternatives were out there, and while I did find two Rivian forums, only one had a forum dedicated to the Rivian Adventure Network, and even then the information was not presented the way it is here. So if I can provide a helpful way to offer useful information to Rivian owners, and then come to this site and then contribute to other discussions about other fastcharger networks (which they can always use), then it's a win/win.

And again, are you saying that the fact that there is information here about the Rivian Adventure Network somehow prevents those that don't necessarily use the RAN from getting information they seek? I mean I have information here about fastchargers all over the country, but your average site visitor probably cares very little about chargers that are outside of places that they travel.
 
lpickup said:
What about people with Rivians? Do they not count? I realize that you may not care about that network, but I don't think you speak for everyone who might visit this site.


For kicks I went out to see what alternatives were out there, and while I did find two Rivian forums, only one had a forum dedicated to the Rivian Adventure Network, and even then the information was not presented the way it is here. So if I can provide a helpful way to offer useful information to Rivian owners, and then come to this site and then contribute to other discussions about other fastcharger networks (which they can always use), then it's a win/win.

And again, are you saying that the fact that there is information here about the Rivian Adventure Network somehow prevents those that don't necessarily use the RAN from getting information they seek? I mean I have information here about fastchargers all over the country, but your average site visitor probably cares very little about chargers that are outside of places that they travel.
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Maybe that's the case for you to set up rivianadvanture.info, but adding the Rivian Adventure network on this site doesn't make any more sense than adding the Supercharger network on this site.

fastcharger.info -> information about public fast chargers

supercharger -> information about Tesla Superchargers

rivianadvanture.info -> information about Rivian Adventure Network
 
The Rivian Adventure Network has more in common with the Tesla Supercharger network than with any public network.

If this site is going to exclude the Tesla Supercharger network, it doesn't make any sense to include the Rivian Adventure Network.

If your argument is: Well, there is already fastcharger.info for the Supercharger network, you could set up rivianadvanture.info for the Rivian Adventure Network.
 
If an when the Rivian Adventure Network becomes large enough to warrant its own dedicated site, perhaps that is an option. But it certainly isn't there today, and with your prediction of Rivian bankruptcy in a couple of years ends up becoming reality, then that may never happen anyway and you will have little to worry about with the network clogging up this site (or whatever it is that you have a problem with having those sites listed here).

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
 
lpickup said:
If an when the Rivian Adventure Network becomes large enough to warrant its own dedicated site, perhaps that is an option. But it certainly isn't there today, and with your prediction of Rivian bankruptcy in a couple of years ends up becoming reality, then that may never happen anyway and you will have little to worry about with the network clogging up this site (or whatever it is that you have a problem with having those sites listed here).

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
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My concern is consistency and precedence rather than anything specifically to do with Rivian.
 
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Since you all could probably use a 3rd party opinion, I would vote FOR including the RAN charger locations. I view this site as CCS compatible stations more than I do public stations. And, I expect the RAN will eventually be accessible to all CCS vehicles down the line. Rivian has stated as much.
 
Dirtman16 said:
Since you all could probably use a 3rd party opinion, I would vote FOR including the RAN charger locations. I view this site as CCS compatible stations more than I do public stations. And, I expect the RAN will eventually be accessible to all CCS vehicles down the line. Rivian has stated as much.
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I agree.

I own a BMW i4, so a private RAN network doesn’t help me. But I think it’s almost certain Rivian will eventually open their network. If for no other reason than tax incentives. I’d rather know & discuss those locations than pretend they don’t exist.
 
@lpickup, I've started a few threads on new Rivian Adventure Network sites. However, it may be quicker to just add the ones listed at this link. Addresses are list there. There are several under construction that are missing from fastcharger.info.

Macon, GA
Savannah, GA
Henderson, NC
Meadows of Dan, VA
Roanoke, VA (posted a separate thread for this one in VA subforum)
Front Royal, VA
Breezewood, PA
Strongsville, OH
Saginaw, MI
Traverse City, MI
Broomfield, CO
Grand Junction, CO
Sedona, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Gila Bend, AZ
Quartzite, AZ
Kingman, AZ
Olancha, CA
Buttonwillow, CA
Roseburg, OR
Happy Valley, OR
Lynnwood, WA
 
Yes, it might be easier to enter the sites first and let @fcibot create the threads automatically.

A quick spot check of these does look good, and while MarcoRP (aka RANtracker) is quite reliable, at least one of the sites I looked at as "Under Construction" did not seem to have concrete evidence of such, so I would probably keep it at Permit status (a permit--or at least a picture of the permit application paperwork--was included).

Since this is a rather extensive list that may take me awhile to compile and enter, I'll make you the same offer that I did to Mockingbird: if you'd like to compile a spreadsheet, that would help out tremendously. For this project, assuming they all have 6 200kW CCS stalls, what I would need would be:
  1. Address (in the form that you typically put in your threads)
  2. Site name (for example, I called the one you posted as "Roanoke" as "Earth Fare - Roanoke")
  3. Status (PLANNED, PERMIT, CONSTRUCTION or OPEN)
  4. Plugshare link (if applicable)
  5. GPS coordinates (I do try to look at any pictorial evidence along with Google Maps / Street View to determine this).
Alternatively, I could make you an editor so that you could add the sites yourself if you wanted to take that role on. PM me if you are interested.
 
scottf200 said:
Stumbled upon this thread. Recalled a related article or two out there.

Rivian To Open Its EV Charging Network To The Public -- Apr 19, 2023 at 12:40pm ET
insideevs.com

Rivian To Open Its EV Charging Network To The Public

Rivian is following Tesla by deploying a proprietary network of DC fast chargers and Level 2 chargers, and it's moving more quickly than you might expect.
insideevs.com insideevs.com

Related Google search: Rivian Open EV Charging Network To The Public - Google Search
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Yes they plan to, however, it doesn't exactly say when (for opening up their DCFC 'Rivian Adventure Network'). It could be over a year from now. Once they do become open to the public, then hopefully they'd be listed on here.

I also think it's incredibly stupid of Rivian to even operate a closed network. Literally all they have to do is let non-Rivian CCS drivers pay using an app. Rivian is literally leaving money on the table keeping their network exclusive.

Anyways, @lpickup what are your plans for listing Tesla Superchargers that include CCS compatible Magic Dock installs? Right now, there aren't may of them but Tesla claims they'll roll out more. For me in an 800-volt vehicle, it won't be useful until they install V4 Superchargers that can output up to 1000 V; I'd be stuck at only 100 kW on V2 or V3.
 
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