Reorganizing the "North America" subforum by different regions

[Mockingbird]

North America

Discussion of fast chargers in North America

discuss.fastcharger.info

Right now, the "regions" that the states are organized into are completely arbitrary.

I would strongly suggest reorganizing the regions according to the official classification of the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis

 

[Mockingbird]

As said, the current grouping is completely arbitrary.

 

[lpickup]

First of all, the current groups are not arbitrary. Thought went into organizing them with the rationale being related to density of charging stations in each region. While the economic regions you shared may be relevant to overall economic classification (or whatever rationale the US Bureau of Economic Analysis may have had in dividing them that way), that does not make them relevant to discussions about charging stations. For example, would it make sense to lump in Nevada with 75 fastchargers in with California with 1300? If someone from Nevada wanted to subscribe to a forum of regional interest to them, they would get swamped by all of the California posts. The same for Texas and Florida which were split out due to the sheer number of stations in each of those states would swamp out other less fortunate states in the region.

Second, the organization here is not all that different from what you propose.

The differences I see are:

• California, Texas and Florida are split out into their own separate sections, for reasons already described.
• The Great Lakes and Plains sections in your map are basically combined into Midwest in this forum. This does make this section the second largest behind California, so it may make sense to split these out. I would consider doing that.
• I drew the line of "Southeast" at GA, and split out several of the other states (AL, MS, AR, LA) into a separate "South" section. With this split, the Southeast forum stands at 610 threads...without it it would balloon to over 860.
• With Texas being its own entity, it would seem odd to lump OK in with AZ and NM and call it "Southwest", so in my classification, I put OK in with the South, which not only fits better than "Southwest", but also balances the number of forums in the "South" section.
• The Far West category in your map does see the biggest shift. With CA split off on its own, it made sense to lump in NV into Southwest, with UT along for the ride. I could probably go either way with UT being either Southwest or Rockies, but it's not a hotbed of activity anyway. I suppose most of the activity in UT is in the northern part of the state, so I could be convinced to move it, but again, having it with Southwest does balance things out a bit better.
• Alaska & Hawaii are their own separate thing. This is definitely intentional. Very low activity to start, but it's also not likely that residents in Nevada are going to want to see posts about Hawaii and Alaska. If someone is interested in either of those states, they can subscribe to the appropriate state forum.
• That leaves WA and OR, hence the Pacific Northwest group. It doesn't make sense to lump them in with the Rocky Mountain states, and with 361 threads, they do stand alone as its own region size-wise, and I suspect that residents of either of those states might be interested in the goings in in the other.

 

[Mockingbird]

First of all, the current groups are not arbitrary. Thought went into organizing them with the rationale being related to density of charging stations in each region. While the economic regions you shared may be relevant to overall economic classification (or whatever rationale the US Bureau of Economic Analysis may have had in dividing them that way), that does not make them relevant to discussions about charging stations. For example, would it make sense to lump in Nevada with 75 fastchargers in with California with 1300? If someone from Nevada wanted to subscribe to a forum of regional interest to them, they would get swamped by all of the California posts. The same for Texas and Florida which were split out due to the sheer number of stations in each of those states would swamp out other less fortunate states in the region.

Second, the organization here is not all that different from what you propose.

The differences I see are:

• California, Texas and Florida are split out into their own separate sections, for reasons already described.
• The Great Lakes and Plains sections in your map are basically combined into Midwest in this forum. This does make this section the second largest behind California, so it may make sense to split these out. I would consider doing that.
• I drew the line of "Southeast" at GA, and split out several of the other states (AL, MS, AR, LA) into a separate "South" section. With this split, the Southeast forum stands at 610 threads...without it it would balloon to over 860.
• With Texas being its own entity, it would seem odd to lump OK in with AZ and NM and call it "Southwest", so in my classification, I put OK in with the South, which not only fits better than "Southwest", but also balances the number of forums in the "South" section.
• The Far West category in your map does see the biggest shift. With CA split off on its own, it made sense to lump in NV into Southwest, with UT along for the ride. I could probably go either way with UT being either Southwest or Rockies, but it's not a hotbed of activity anyway. I suppose most of the activity in UT is in the northern part of the state, so I could be convinced to move it, but again, having it with Southwest does balance things out a bit better.
• Alaska & Hawaii are their own separate thing. This is definitely intentional. Very low activity to start, but it's also not likely that residents in Nevada are going to want to see posts about Hawaii and Alaska. If someone is interested in either of those states, they can subscribe to the appropriate state forum.
• That leaves WA and OR, hence the Pacific Northwest group. It doesn't make sense to lump them in with the Rocky Mountain states, and with 361 threads, they do stand alone as its own region size-wise, and I suspect that residents of either of those states might be interested in the goings in in the other.

I don't see why "charger density" is relevant. The same can be said about the number of threads.

Since each state already has its own subforum, someone could just subscribe to the subforum they are interested in.

Someone who wants to know about chargers in Nevada could just subscribe to the Nevada subforum.

Also, what happens in California is absolutely relevant in Nevada: Nevada gets more out-of-state visitors from California than any other state.

On the other hand, what does Nevada have in common with Utah? Nothing much.

Utah has more in common with Idaho with both states being Mormon-heavy.

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Also, classification from U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis might not matter much except that that same classification is taught in the US in middle school and high school so a lot of people are already familiar with that classification.

What do the "Great Lakes" states have in common? They all surround the Great Lakes.

What do the "Rocky Mountains" states have in common? The Rocky Mountains run through all of them.

What do the "Southeast" states have in common? They were all formerly slave-owning states.

You have to think about making the website user-friendly.

Having a classification on this website that doesn't match a classification on any other website sure isn't user-friendly.

Just because it makes sense to you doesn't mean that it makes sense to anyone else.

 

[lpickup]

I don't see why "charger density" is relevant. The same can be said about the number of threads.

Since each state already has its own subforum, someone could just subscribe to the subforum they are interested in.

Someone who wants to know about chargers in Nevada could just subscribe to the Nevada subforum.

So why are you concerned about how things are organized above that level? Do you really think that someone interested in charging stations in Nevada is not going to be able to find the Nevada subforum because it's categorized in Southwest here rather than Far West?

Also, classification from U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis might not matter much except that that same classification is taught in the US in middle school and high school so a lot of people are already familiar with that classification.

I'd be willing to bet that most people are not actually familiar with that classification to the point where they would instantly associate OK with "Southwest" (a bit of a dubious classification in my opinion anyway), and not be able to find the OK forum on this site.

What do the "Great Lakes" states have in common? They all surround the Great Lakes.

Well okay then. PA and NY also border the Great Lakes. Should I put them in that category as well then?

What do the "Rocky Mountains" states have in common? The Rocky Mountains run through all of them.

How about NM? Do I need to move NM to the Rocky Mountains category, potentially splitting off OK and TX from the other Southwest state?

What do the "Southeast" states have in common? They were all formerly slave-owning states.

That doesn't even make sense unless the category was called "Former slave states". And also factually inaccurate, as NY and NJ were technically slave states until well into the 1800's (slave ownership was not illegal there until the 13th amendment).

You have to think about making the website user-friendly.

Having a classification on this website that doesn't match a classification on any other website sure isn't user-friendly.

Again, this is really a stretch. Given that there is a twistie below each category that takes one whole click to pop up the subforums underneath, how long is it going to take someone to find a forum they are interested in, if that's the way they interact with the site at all:

More than likely, they are going to interact with it from the map by clicking on a specific Discuss link, or by arriving at a specific thread or forum as a result of a search. For those that do prefer to navigate from the "North America" forum, however, it's hardly a burden at all.

Just because it makes sense to you doesn't mean that it makes sense to anyone else.

Ditto.

And while technically possible, it's also statistically false. That implies that it's possible that it would make no sense to everyone else trying to navigate using the current classification. And that is most certainly not the case.

 

[Mockingbird]

So why are you concerned about how things are organized above that level? Do you really think that someone interested in charging stations in Nevada is not going to be able to find the Nevada subforum because it's categorized in Southwest here rather than Far West?

I am sure that anyone can find any state eventually by randomly opening each category.

The point is not to do that.

I'd be willing to bet that most people are not actually familiar with that classification to the point where they would instantly associate OK with "Southwest" (a bit of a dubious classification in my opinion anyway), and not be able to find the OK forum on this site.

It is what is taught in US middle and high schools, so people (assuming that they pay attention in class) would have some familiarity with that classification.

Again, anyone can find any state eventually, but I am taking about the ease of doing so.

Well okay then. PA and NY also border the Great Lakes. Should I put them in that category as well then?

No, because that is not how it is taught in US middle and high schools.

PY and NY are never considered Great Lake states.

How about NM? Do I need to move NM to the Rocky Mountains category, potentially splitting off OK and TX from the other Southwest state?

No. The Rocky Mountains do encroach on northern NM, but in US middle and high schools, NM is considered part of the Southwest region rather than the Rocky Mountains

That doesn't even make sense unless the category was called "Former slave states". And also factually inaccurate, as NY and NJ were technically slave states until well into the 1800's (slave ownership was not illegal there until the 13th amendment).

Again, I am going by what is taught in US middle and high schools.

Again, this is really a stretch. Given that there is a twistie below each category that takes one whole click to pop up the subforums underneath, how long is it going to take someone to find a forum they are interested in, if that's the way they interact with the site at all:
View attachment 74
More than likely, they are going to interact with it from the map by clicking on a specific Discuss link, or by arriving at a specific thread or forum as a result of a search. For those that do prefer to navigate from the "North America" forum, however, it's hardly a burden at all.

Again, that's another step that shouldn't be needed.

Ditto.

And while technically possible, it's also statistically false. That implies that it's possible that it would make no sense to everyone else trying to navigate using the current classification. And that is most certainly not the case.

I am not suggesting that the map at the top of the page is the only one that should be considered.

Maybe you like this map better:

My point is that the region should be more coherent.

 

[Dirtman16]

So, I don't particularly love the current groupings of states. But, in fairness, this is based on my personal life experiences and not any type of formal education. As a resident of Alabama, I would group my state with TN, SC, NC, KY, and GA much faster than with OK. But it is somewhat arbitrary.

@lpickup, you mentioned being a sister site to supercharge.info and loosely TMC. You could consider matching their groupings. You're not terribly far off anyway.

That being said, I'd be fine with it staying as is. As you note, you can find what you need.

 

[Mockingbird]

So, I don't particularly love the current groupings of states. But, in fairness, this is based on my personal life experiences and not any type of formal education. As a resident of Alabama, I would group my state with TN, SC, NC, KY, and GA much faster than with OK. But it is somewhat arbitrary.

@lpickup, you mentioned being a sister site to supercharge.info and loosely TMC. You could consider matching their groupings. You're not terribly far off anyway.

That being said, I'd be fine with it staying as is. As you note, you can find what you need.

There is a culture associated with each region.

When I think of "the South", I think of the Bible Belt and the three G's: god, gays, and guns.

 

[Dirtman16]

There is a culture associated with each region.

When I think of "the South", I think of the Bible Belt and the three G's: god, gays, and guns.

I don't even know what that means, but I feel slightly offended. While there is certainly an average culture for each region, I would caution you not to paint broad strokes. Much like all of the United States, the real cultural divide in the south is more rural/urban than it is southern/northern.

 

[Mockingbird]

I don't even know what that means, but I feel slightly offended. While there is certainly an average culture for each region, I would caution you not to paint broad strokes. Much like all of the United States, the real cultural divide in the south is more rural/urban than it is southern/northern.

Bible Belt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, I know it's Wikipedia, but the article is pretty good

 

[Mockingbird]

More than likely, they are going to interact with it from the map by clicking on a specific Discuss link, or by arriving at a specific thread or forum as a result of a search. For those that do prefer to navigate from the "North America" forum, however, it's hardly a burden at all.

Ditto.

Well, if that's the case, I am the one navigating the "North America" forum the majority of the time since I am the one making most of the new threads (not counting the fcibot).

So you would be making it easier for me.

 

[lpickup]

I do appreciate the fact that you are a prolific user of the site and that this would make your life somehow easier. But if I can suggest a tip, if you go to the main forum page, just select the Sub-forums list from the North America forum and all the states are right there. Even in my not-familiar-to-you organization it shouldn't take you more than a few seconds to scroll down to the state you want.