10,000 (non-Tesla) fastcharger stalls in the US!

lpickup

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Today CCS/CHAdeMO DC fastchargers in the US crossed a major milestone: 10,000 public stalls nationwide!

The site that put us over that mark was the Fastcharger - Minnetonka - Williston Fitness Center Auxiliary Lot station in Minnetonka, MN (map)

I will say that counting non-Tesla fastcharger stalls is not as straightforward as Tesla Supercharger stalls. There are around two dozen different networks, each with their own way of indicating sites, stations, and stalls. They come and go at a rapid pace. Many are abandoned by their hosts or networks without notification. Sometimes it's not possible to know whether a given station is public or not. These are all reasons why growing the community and getting boots on the ground to investigate is so important!

I do take great pains to curate the list as best I can and am reasonably confident that the 10,000 number is reasonably accurate. And we're just getting started, as new installations continue to climb the exponential curve.
 
Yeah, but how many of those 10,000 are working? I can name countless CCS chargers that have been out of service for more than a half year. Two years ago, there were more useable CCS chargers than today. I could ride my electric motorcycles much farther two years ago than I can today.

A few examples of the CCS I used to use a couple of years ago, but no longer can:

1. Hawthone, NV. Totally dead for more than a year.
2. Fallon, NV. Totally dead for more than a year.
3. CA I-80 Donnor Summit East--totally dead for more than a year.
4. CA I-80 West--totally dead for around six months.
5. Incline Village, NV, dead for around seven months.

Also, countless new problems. Such as when ChargePoint updated their last FW, their CCS chargers no longer work at all with my Energica motorcycles.

In the area I am often in, there are a lot LESS working chargers than there were two years ago.

We are going in reverse, from what I can tell. It was all MJCH better two years ago than today in the places where I need CCS.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
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Such as when ChargePoint updated their last FW, their CCS chargers no longer work at all with my Energica motorcycles.
Have you reported that to ChargePoint?
I don't mean any offence but you're driving a niche EV and it's very likely ChargePoint hasn't tested it at all. Your motorcycle might be doing something unique in the CCS communication handshake and CP's latest firmware update could have unintentionally caused issues.
 
Have you reported that to ChargePoint?
I don't mean any offence but you're driving a niche EV and it's very likely ChargePoint hasn't tested it at all. Your motorcycle might be doing something unique in the CCS communication handshake and CP's latest firmware update could have unintentionally caused issues.
The symptoms are the bike will stay in the initiation stage forever and will never switch to charging. It also will not time-out. Just stays there on the initiation stage.

CP is aware of the issue, and it will be fixed in their next firmware update. Energica met with CP to solve the issue. It should all be fixed within the next couple of months.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
Yeah, but how many of those 10,000 are working? I can name countless CCS chargers that have been out of service for more than a half year. Two years ago, there were more useable CCS chargers than today. I could ride my electric motorcycles much farther two years ago than I can today.
Focusing on the absolute number kind of misses the point. Yes, it's a milestone number, and obviously I used the opportunity of crossing the 10K number to make this post, but more important is the trend. Passing that milestone represents a growth of the network that we can then use to benchmark future growth. I.e. it took 12 years to reach the first 10,000, how many to reach the next? For example, we have already passed 11K in just over 5 months since this was posted.

At any rate, I do attempt to curate this data, and to a certain extent, rely on folks such as yourself to report chargers that are inoperative so I can deduct those from the count, so that hopefully, yes, 10,000 means 10,000 working stations. I'm not going to pretend that that's actually the case, but I do think it's probably closer than most other sources you'll find. I spend quite a lot of time reviewing stations to make sure they are accurately represented here.

A few examples of the CCS I used to use a couple of years ago, but no longer can:

1. Hawthone, NV. Totally dead for more than a year.
2. Fallon, NV. Totally dead for more than a year.
3. CA I-80 Donnor Summit East--totally dead for more than a year.
4. CA I-80 West--totally dead for around six months.
5. Incline Village, NV, dead for around seven months.
I checked out all 5 of these areas and for the first four, I am showing no entries, so no, those are not included in the current count. As for the 5th, I am assuming you are referring to the EVgo station at Raley's, which after investigating, I have now marked as Temporarily Closed. Oddly enough it's showing as temporarily closed in AFDC, so it is odd that I missed that change. And also I see you posted in that forum thread yesterday, but that post is not showing up in my "New Posts" feed, so SOMETHING is conspiring to keep this station's status hidden from me!

Also, countless new problems. Such as when ChargePoint updated their last FW, their CCS chargers no longer work at all with my Energica motorcycles.

In the area I am often in, there are a lot LESS working chargers than there were two years ago.

We are going in reverse, from what I can tell. It was all MJCH better two years ago than today in the places where I need CCS.
I won't dispute that in some areas there has been a significant pullback. In particular, many auto dealers (and Harley dealers in particular) have abandoned their relationship with ChargePoint, so the chargers are no longer technically on the ChargePoint network. In some cases they continue to work, but in others either something broke and they are not willing to fix it, or the stations have been completely removed. To be honest, I expect to see most dealerships abandon offering charging in the future--they probably never should have been in the business in the first place.

EVgo also has had some major pullbacks out of certain properties (WalMarts) and as part of the their "Renew" program they just shut down some sites completely.

That's not to say that they are shrinking. They are still growing. But unfortunately for you, it seems like the places that you go are the ones that are experiencing the pullback.

You may have to do a little advocacy yourself in the areas that you tend to travel to. Let businesses and representatives in those areas know that you would like to travel to those places and spend your money there, but until they can offer reliable charging, it's off limits to you. And you're not alone.

I can't say that approach works off the bat, but the more businesses start to hear that, the closer they get to realizing they had better get with the times.
 
(and Harley dealers in particular
I forgot about them. I used to use those a lot.

Having more charge stations is meaningless when the prime areas I need have nothing--but they used to.

We are certainly moving in reverse from what I can tell here in NV and near NV.

It seems to me they pile up the charge stations in the same areas. Such as I-80 in CA. CCS charge stations almost every exit. Don't really need Donner Summit, so I should not have even mentioned that one. But the next one west in Kingvale (53102 Donner Pass Rd, Soda Springs 95728)
is also out of service. But places such as Susanville and Lake Topaz only have Tesla. But even with the Magic Dock, so far, only put them where not at all needed and ignore the places where such is badly needed.

Wal*Mart did much the same. Nothing at the Wal*Mart in Susanville. But perhaps almost every Wal*Mart of the Sacramento area has CCS.

10,000 charge stations all grouped together in the same areas does little good. How about a few more on Highway 395? Highway 70?

And fix the countless broken ones.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
10,000 charge stations, 125,000 gas stations in America. And gas stations are rarely down.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
10,000 charge stations, 125,000 gas stations in America. And gas stations are rarely down.
Of course that's an apples to oranges comparison. Since most charging is done at home or work or some other L2 station, there really are FAR more than 10,000 stations (even well more than 125,000!)
 
Of course that's an apples to oranges comparison. Since most charging is done at home or work or some other L2 station, there really are FAR more than 10,000 stations (even well more than 125,000!)
The issue is when far from home. Home charging does little good when you're too far from home to use the home charging.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
The issue is when far from home. Home charging does little good when you're too far from home to use the home charging.

Understood. But that's only a small percentage of all daily users. Hence, no need to recreate the gas station penetration level, which is set up because ALL users have to rely on gas stations.
 
Understood. But that's only a small percentage of all daily users. Hence, no need to recreate the gas station penetration level, which is set up because ALL users have to rely on gas stations.
True with my EV cars. Rarely charged anywhere other than home.

The opposite for my EV motorcycles, most of their charging is done far from home. And they have less range than the cars. So that is my issue.

I tend to use my cars for local stuff and take longer trips on motorcycles. But I often need to take an ICE bike because the electrics can no longer make it between the charge stations. I did NOT have this problem two years ago when there were not so many broken CCS charge stations.

It seems to me Tesla Superchargers are the only ones that can be relied on. And I need those the least of all. I have charged my Tesla three times on the road since new in 2018. But if they had Magic Dock or another way to use Tesla Superchargers for CCS, my problem would be solved.

BTW, I have used the Magic Dock in Placerville, CA. It would only charge my Enegica at ~8 KW. 25 KW on real CCS chargers. But 8KW is better than nothing.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
BTW, one thing I really want to give credit to with ChargePoint. They seem to have J-1772 at all their locations and that always works. I wish Tesla and all the others would do the same. Then I could at least charge my Zero SR at 8KW. While some of them can only do around 6.6 KW, I can hog up both cables at those that do not split the power and then get my 8 KW.

But I can only charge my Energicas at 3KW with AC.

Many places have Tesla Superchargers and nothing else. Important locations, such as Lake Topaz, NV.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
True with my EV cars. Rarely charged anywhere other than home.

The opposite for my EV motorcycles, most of their charging is done far from home. And they have less range than the cars. So that is my issue.
I'm not trying to say that you don't have an issue (clearly you do). What I am saying is that we don't necessarily need 125,000 fastchargers to enable most people's travel needs (although obviously the more the merrier, especially if it provides needed redundancy in the system). Keep in mind that many of those 125,000 gas stations are in cities, sometimes 3-4 on a single crossroads, which isn't going to help your situation at all.
 
most people's
The term "most people" usually means it leaves me out.:).

BTW, I have also been to places that had chargers but no gas for miles. It kinda made my day when I charged up here and a car came by to ask where the nearest gas station was, which was many miles away.

My Zero DS charging in the Everglades of FL. They also have CCS there, but note where it says the CCS is NOT working. What else is new?;)
everglades.jpg
-Don- Reno, NV
 
Have you reported that to ChargePoint?
I don't mean any offence but you're driving a niche EV and it's very likely ChargePoint hasn't tested it at all. Your motorcycle might be doing something unique in the CCS communication handshake and CP's latest firmware update could have unintentionally caused issues.
Now, all those CPs that did not work are now working better than ever! Always working on the first try. The ChargePoint FW that did not work with Energica was "7.5.0.18". Now they have "7.5.0.22" which works perfectly!

However, I found a couple that say they are "7.5.0.18" but now work on the same machine and bike that did not work a few weeks ago. Perhaps the FW number gets updated somewhat after the FW upgrade, I just don't know other than they now all work, which is all that counts.

All the ones I checked were in CA. There is one ChargePoint I want to check in Garnerville, NV, but it is impossible to get to right now because all the roads to it are closed because of construction. I was able to walk to it, but the screen has an issue where it will not show the version number. But it looks like the charger is working, but I could not tell if it was updated.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
The road construction is over with there in Garnerville, NV and the charger there now works with my Energica motorcycles. Seems Chargepoint already has all their chargers updated to the 7.5.0.22 FW. I could not find any Chargepoints that would not work with my Energicas in the last few weeks and I tried many of them. I am sure glad that issue is over with.
 
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